Curse

Aeon221 · Jul 28, 2009, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

It is probably more than that. If it takes a year to produce that one person's salary is roughly $200k. Then there are other miscellaneous costs. If they dont earn much from it, then it is just not worth it to produce, plus it was given out free to drive up the sales of EOTN too.

I think the reward sucks, so I wouldn't buy it if I have to pay for it. ANet is too much of a carebear to sell time-based rewards, in their online stores.

1) Your salary expectations for the gaming industry are HILARIOUSLY off.

2) I'm working from the assumption of ten to twelve people over six to eight months, plus a hefty buffer for various taxes etc.

Daesu · Jul 28, 2009, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon221

1) Your salary expectations for the gaming industry are HILARIOUSLY off.

Maybe you are right. However, counting in benefits, $150k to $200k per year per engineer is quite typical for the software company that I work for, which produces games too.

vader · Jul 28, 2009, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

Does anyone even still play the BMP? All that effort put onto something that no one plays anymore....

I played it a few weeks ago to get a Mursaat spear and shield for my Paragon. Before then however, I don't think I played it since it first came out.

Mordakai · Jul 28, 2009, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Maybe you are right. However, counting in benefits, $150k to $200k per year per engineer is quite typical for the software company that I work for, which produces games too.

Looking at the Nightfall production DVD that came in the collector edition, I have a hard time imagining those people making $200k.

If they made $60k I'd be impressed.

Daesu · Jul 28, 2009, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Looking at the Nightfall production DVD that came in the collector edition, I have a hard time imagining those people making $200k.

If they made $60k I'd be impressed.

Wow. And the cost of living in Bellevue, Washington where ANet resides, is not cheap either.

I think our fresh graduates make more than that if you count in benefits.

Gigashadow · Jul 28, 2009, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Looking at the Nightfall production DVD that came in the collector edition, I have a hard time imagining those people making $200k.

If they made $60k I'd be impressed.

As a rule of thumb you usually take the salary and multiply by 2 for what it actually costs the company in terms of benefits, office space, payroll taxes, etc.

But yeah, game developers pretty much earn jack shit and work ridiculous hours, you have to really love games and not care about money to be in that industry. If I didn't care about money I would totally do it, but working for a large company is just too lucrative. And yeah, Bellevue is really quite expensive.

Inde · Jul 28, 2009, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Maybe you are right. However, counting in benefits, $150k to $200k per year per engineer is quite typical for the software company that I work for, which produces games too.

Daesu, it's not typical for any company. You are talking about the top 10% of engineers who make that much and they are Director level and above. What you have are rumors. The average salary for an engineer is about $65k (and there are many different types of engineers so it will vary according to the specific engineer of course, I'm speaking overall).

And yes, yes I realize I contributed to the thread derailment.

Daesu · Jul 28, 2009, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Daesu, it's not typical for any company. You are talking about the top 10% of engineers who make that much and they are Director level and above. What you have are rumors. The average salary for an engineer is about $65k (and there are many different types of engineers so it will vary according to the specific engineer of course, I'm speaking overall).

If that is true, it is really surprising to me, being in this line for more than 10 years. It could also be the cost of living factor too. In Texas that maybe ok. But in Bellevue WA, that sounds like a fresh grad engineer pay. In New York City, that would be hilariously low even for a fresh grad engineer.

Gigashadow · Jul 28, 2009, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

If that is true, it is really surprising to me, being in this line for more than 10 years. It could also be the cost of living factor too. In Texas that maybe ok. But in Bellevue WA, that sounds like a fresh grad engineer pay. In New York City, that would be hilariously low even for a fresh grad engineer.

The big 3 software companies hiring in the Bellevue area (Microsoft, Google, Amazon) pay about $80K starting salary to someone straight out of college. However, big companies can afford that, and small companies generally not.

Daesu · Jul 29, 2009, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigashadow

The big 3 software companies hiring in the Bellevue area (Microsoft, Google, Amazon) pay about $80K starting salary to someone straight out of college. However, big companies can afford that, and small companies generally not.

That sounds about right for a fresh grad, but for a lead or manager, it is usually 6 figures. I was thinking that these would raise the average salary of software engineers in Bellevue Washington to a higher level (we are also counting in benefits), I didn't know that the other companies there pay so much lower. I guess it is a hard time for the economy anyway.

Zahr Dalsk · Jul 29, 2009, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

A few thousands people buying a $10 game would not pay for a fulltime team of 10 people working for about 6 months (which is roughly what Linsey mentioned would be needed for a new realm, so it's only a lower estimate).

A full team of 10 people working for six months, to put together a few small missions?

Good heavens, it's a pity their developer tools are so very limited and hard to use. Imagine if they'd used the Gamebryo engine (for those of you who are unaware, that's the engine Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3 use, notable for its incredibly good mod tool, the ESCS/GECK) - with 10 people working fulltime at it, they could be putting out dozens of BMPs.

zwei2stein · Jul 29, 2009, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

A full team of 10 people working for six months, to put together a few small missions?

Good heavens, it's a pity their developer tools are so very limited and hard to use. Imagine if they'd used the Gamebryo engine (for those of you who are unaware, that's the engine Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3 use, notable for its incredibly good mod tool, the ESCS/GECK) - with 10 people working fulltime at it, they could be putting out dozens of BMPs.

Sure, you can chuck out stuff like that, but that is not going to work well. They are trying that with live team and it is failing miserably - remember skills that crash you when you equip em? That is gonna happen with Zahr, the pointy haired boss at wheel.

Funny mentioned GECK. Anchorage, which is equivalent of BMP both in size and content took exactly that, about 60 peoplemonths. GECK/Gamebryo is pretty terrible in anything else than building areas.

There is more to those areas than basic geometry. Custom assets, Scripting, Custom skills ... hell, each BMP weapon took at least day to model. Two days if you add concepting. Three days with QA.

Shasgaliel · Jul 30, 2009, 07:23 AM // 07:23

I just asked in my alliance who did BMP missions. NO ONE! Some have BMP but even did not bother with doing one of them. I wonder why ANET does not work on stuff similar to BMP...

zwei2stein · Jul 30, 2009, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

I just asked in my alliance who did BMP missions. NO ONE! Some have BMP but even did not bother with doing one of them. I wonder why ANET does not work on stuff similar to BMP...

Which is kinda surprising because full run thought mission with bonus nets 8k gold and four cool looking weapons. Plus useful weapon you get just for accepting mission.

Maybe they do not know about it?

And considering that they are much better designed than most other missions...

Fril Estelin · Jul 30, 2009, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Which is kinda surprising because full run thought mission with bonus nets 8k gold and four cool looking weapons. Plus useful weapon you get just for accepting mission.

And the fun of being Master Togo, Turai Ossa, Gwen, and Saul D'Alessio in their respective environment and stories ... priceless

zwei2stein · Jul 30, 2009, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

And the fun of being Master Togo, Turai Ossa, Gwen, and Saul D'Alessio in their respective environment and stories ... priceless

Screw those goodie-gooddoers hero types, I wanna see how Lich retrieved Ruriks body and made him undead!

Fril Estelin · Jul 30, 2009, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Screw those goodie-gooddoers hero types, I wanna see how Lich retrieved Ruriks body and made him undead!

You're playng the wrong game! Gogo prototype

(well it's more a Shiro meets the Lich ...)

Konig Des Todes · Jul 30, 2009, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

A few thousands people buying a $10 game would not pay for a fulltime team of 10 people working for about 6 months (which is roughly what Linsey mentioned would be needed for a new realm, so it's only a lower estimate).

A full team of 10 people working for six months, to put together a few small missions?

Good heavens, it's a pity their developer tools are so very limited and hard to use. Imagine if they'd used the Gamebryo engine (for those of you who are unaware, that's the engine Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3 use, notable for its incredibly good mod tool, the ESCS/GECK) - with 10 people working fulltime at it, they could be putting out dozens of BMPs.

Actually, it's 20 people at least needed to make new explorable areas - from concept art to quest dialogues and programming - so Linsey has stated and explained.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

I just asked in my alliance who did BMP missions. NO ONE! Some have BMP but even did not bother with doing one of them. I wonder why ANET does not work on stuff similar to BMP...

Then those people are missing out.

I'd personally love more BMPs, it allows the player to get lore without needing the character to be there, which I think is great, personally. But why they haven't? Not worth the time spent, and/or not enough people to surrender from GW2 development.

Daesu · Jul 30, 2009, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Which is kinda surprising because full run thought mission with bonus nets 8k gold and four cool looking weapons. Plus useful weapon you get just for accepting mission.

That is only in Discovery mode which is only the first time when you completed the discoveries. Most people should have already done those when they first got the BMP.

Subsequent runs only net you 500g and a customized weapon which sucks big time compared the same amount of time dedicated to farming. Why would I play BMP again after Discovery mode has ended? For all the work that they have done for the BMP, its replay value is extremely low.

I got mine for free. I wouldn't buy an addon that takes more time for less gain. ANet doesn't know how to equalize time-based rewards across different parts of the game, and they are stingy with their rewards for their BMP, so it is not attractive as a pricing item.

Furthermore, I consider the BMP generally alittle more difficult than your average mission in NM because you have to solo, you have a fixed build, no cons, and no party members or heroes to back you up. But at least going through NM missions again to get the bonus would work towards a title. There are also no monster drops in BMP, which normal missions have. Summary: BMP missions have less reward, more time needed, and higher difficulty. Which is a shame because it does have interesting content.

Shasgaliel · Jul 30, 2009, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

I'd personally love more BMPs, it allows the player to get lore without needing the character to be there, which I think is great, personally. But why they haven't? Not worth the time spent, and/or not enough people to surrender from GW2 development.

I also loved it but it seems we are the minority... Actually I also do not notice people using weapons from BMP. I really think it was not so popular as Anet hope it would.